I had the pleasure of meeting this amazing man of God. He has a unique gift of teaching people how to memorize.
Emmy-nominated founder and lead pastor of Hope In Numbers, Gordon Wickert is pursuing the mission to lead people in transforming every number seen into a timely, powerful verse from scripture that can be applied daily so nothing can separate people from the living word of God. He is an empowering leader who provides inspirational teaching and visionary leadership. Gordon has worked as a youth Pastor for 11 years and Graduated from the Vineyard Institute in 2005. He is the author of the book Hope In Numbers. He lives in Peoria, Arizona with his wife Cindy, and has 5 kids including his 4 daughters Ky, Emily, Hope, and Hallelujah as well as his son Andrew James who recently passed on into eternity with the Lord.
Gordon prays that Christian families can raise their children to see God’s word in numbers so that they can know God all the days of their life, as they fall deeper in love with Jesus Christ.
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/hope_in_numbers
Christ’s Church of the Valley: https://ccv.church/
CCV Missions: www.ccv.church/missions
Let’s Go 360: https://www.letsgo360.org/
Pastor Larrie Fraley: linkedin.com/in/larrie-fraley-53445032
Larrie: Well, with us today is Gordon Wickert. Gordon is a member of our church, very involved. And a few years ago, Gordon began a journey that we're going to talk about today. He is probably in my book as one of the most interesting man in the world category. We've all heard the commercial about the most interesting man in the world. Gordon kind of fits this and we're going to see today. Gordon, welcome to the show.
Gordon: Thank you very much.
Larrie: Much. Gordon God had you on a journey and several years ago you began this journey, and you're going to share that with us today. But tell us a little bit about yourself before we get started.
Gordon: For sure. Thank you for having me today. My name is Gordon Wickert. I'm a CCV member here. I've been here for ten years. I love this church. I'm married to my beautiful wife, Cindy Wickert. I have five beautiful children, four daughters, one son, Andrew James was in our special needs ministry. Unfortunately, he passed away. He's with the Lord on seven one this year. So we're just transitioning into this new life. But God gave me this amazing gift of Bible memorization and seeing it everywhere. I go through numbers through just a revelation out in the world. And so I actually have this great passion to follow Jesus, to serve Jesus and to memorize the Bible as best I can and take my Bible study on the go with me out in the streets, out in the workplaces, wherever there's a number I teach, that's where hope can be found. So it's it's really encouraging. It fuels my faith all day long. So for 21 years I've been on I call it Church Camp Fire for 365 days a year, because I'm always in his word, because I see it everywhere I go. And that's what I'm here to tell you guys about. And maybe you guys can be inspired and learn it yourself.
Larrie: Yeah, that's fantastic. And certainly I've we're going to have a I'm going to have a little later time, Gordon, that I'm going to actually test you. So I want to give you a little heads up, but I know I don't need to really do that. So this all kind of started, you said 21 years ago, but you came from the corporate world. Right now, you're no longer there. You're actually in full time ministry doing this. Tell us a bit, a little bit about that transition and maybe how it started.
Gordon: For sure. For sure. So, yeah, I was actually a fraud investigator at a bank for the last 23 years, and I felt the urge to start a mission, to start a ministry, to start this gift that God gave me. And I call it Hope and Numbers, which stands for Holding on to Promises Everywhere. That's the acronym for Hope in Numbers and the Lord just several signs like it talks about in judges, where Gideon asked for a sign from God and God gave him two signs in a row and God gave me a sign like, you should jump out of the boat. I'm calling you now. And as of 12,31 2022, I retired from my job and went into full time ministry on teaching and preaching how to memorize God's Word with this new upgraded way. So I just did that. And it's it's kind of like walking on the water. If you take your eyes off Jesus, you might sink. But I'm just right now focused straight ahead on the Lord. And it's just been inspiring. It's just been amazing. I've had so many people like like even you reaching out and giving opportunities to get this word out because this generation needs to know the Bible better. Jesus preached knowing the Bible better, The Bible says Joshua one eight If I never let this book of the law depart from your mouth, meditate on it day and night so you can be careful to do everything written in it, then you'll be prosperous and successful. I believe I might be part of the answer to that gift, this gift that God gave me. And so I just want to bless the world. And we're in full time ministry. And it's just been it's just been a joy.
Larrie: Well, I know your mission says that you are you're about taking back the world for Jesus Christ by transforming every number. What do you mean by that?
Gordon: So this world has a thing of where they take the Bible out of like monuments, like the Ten Commandments off the walls. They're trying to take God in God we trust of our money. Well, I'm trying to put it back by every number now can represent a promise from God. We all know as Christians 316, by just seeing the number at a football game or on TV or Tim Tebow put it under his eye black that that represent John 3:16 and so what I'm saying we're taking back every number is I'm transforming just like 316 is John I'm doing that to 526 which is your birthday and your wife's birthday 610 or Ashley Wooldridge is birthday 116 that's Romans 1:16 for I am ashamed of the Gospel of God's grace. So every number now has hidden hope in it and I teach you how to see it and hold on to it, and it's actually really encouraging when you're driving or walking or no matter where you see a number, that's where hope can be found. So I teach you how to hold on to his promises and be encouraged throughout your whole day, not just in the church service or on. When you see a great verse in your Bible study or online, you can literally anywhere there's a number. If you see the verse, you can own it and hold on to that promise or truth from his word.
Larrie: Now I see you wearing different clothing, t shirts and baseball caps, that sort of thing. The last time I saw you, you had a baseball cap that had 633 on it. What's the significance of that?
Gordon: 21 years ago, I asked my senior pastor at the Vineyard Christian Fellowship. He said, Hey, I walked to him and said, What's a verse I could build my life on as my as my senior pastor. And he goes, Matthew 6:33 And that's what it represents. It's the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is given the greatest sermon of his life. Right? And it's seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be given unto you as well. And I just he gave me that. I memorized it. And then my pastor challenged me memorize one verse a week for 52 weeks. By the end of the year, you'll know 52 scriptures. So I took that challenge. I started doing it, and the cool transition was I started memorizing more than one a week and by the end of the year I knew I knew 500 just by being challenged by one, and this gift that God has given me. So I've been doing it for 21 years memorizing and it's just been such a blessing. It helps so many different ways out in our world to to be a light to somebody that I just give them their birthday verse at like Chipotle or In-and-Out Burger. I just ask them, What's your birthday? And they tell me and I give them a scripture which is a gift to them. And actually the Lord takes it and speaks right to their heart and they start crying sometimes, they start high fiving me and or some people have even said, for example, I met this girl like a while back just on the street, and she goes, My birthday is 828. And I was like, Romans 828 says, And God will work all things together for good. If you love God and are called according to his purposes, she's like, Oh my goodness, I never made the connection that that's my birthday and that's my favorite scripture. So it was like a really cool, like God moment of like encouragement to her. And she got to not only is it her birthday, but it's her favorite verse, and I'm pretty sure she'll never forget that.
Larrie: Well, we're going to get into your book now. Now, you you your book, which I'm holding in my hand here, has a very interesting cover. There's actually a handprint on it. What's the significant significance of that handprint?
Gordon: Okay. So there's there's a handprint with a really good grip. And then on the other side, there is a devil. It's like the monster scrapes. And so in the middle, you'll see a very subtle it says Hope Wars. So we're in a war for hope for our soul. If you know it or not, we're in a we're in a battle for hope. And the devil is trying to pull our Bible out of our hand and the Lord trying to put it back in our hand. And the whole analogy is this We're in a tug of war with the Bible. Now, just picture. I know that's not the Bible, but pictured as a Bible, and I give you five steps on how to hold on to promises everywhere. Just like we have five fingers. I give you five steps on how to have the best grip on God's word, and that's an acronym that stands for truth. It's try hope in numbers. Have the right renew your mind to it. If you use God's Word, use it, teach people it, and hold it like you hold on to your marriages till death do you part. You have the best grip on God's Word and you will win the tug of war for hope in your soul.
Larrie: Wow. That's. That's pretty creative. That is very creative. So you're telling me and our audience that this book will teach us how to memorize scripture? Maybe not as well as you, but it gets us down the path, right?
Gordon: Yeah. It's just a Zachariah 4:10 says do not despise small beginnings. God just rejoices and you beginning to work. And so I would not. I've been doing this for 21 years so you're looking at like LeBron James or Tim or you know Tom Brady winning like I've been you're seeing me at the end, Not at the beginning. At the beginning I knew one Matthew 6:33. So if you don't know any today, just be encouraged that God just rejoices you in beginning to try this. And over the years you need to understand your brain type and how you memorize. And then I teach you how to make memories with a memory verse and you'll never forget it. If it's your wife's birthday, your child, your anniversary, a date of death. No matter what number out in the world, if it's significant to you, a Jersey number people have a favorite Jersey number. People have a favorite number. People have like a number that haunts them always. And I'm like, Well, what's the Bible say in that? And it's a constant reminder of truth and promises and hope. And it literally I've taught hundreds of people and I know people that went from one verse they knew in three months, know 58 now and then, never forget him.
Larrie: That's amazing. Well, I'm going to put you to the test. Let's go. We haven't talked about this. You have no idea what I'm going to say. I'm going to ask you to recite scripture for each one of my grandchildren, for sure. Yeah, right. Here we go. The first born, which is Preston, was born on 1030 or excuse me, 10 13,97.
Gordon: 1013 is my third theme verse for hope of numbers. And it says in First Corinthians 10:13, No Temptation is sees you except for what's common a man and got his faithful. He won't let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. And when you are tempted, he provides a way out to stand up under it. And that's a theme verse for me. Because how do we stand up temptation Jesus in the wilderness? He used Scripture to defeat the devil's lies in our way out is the same way to know Scripture. And that's where I get all my motivation from is. When Jesus was tempted, he used Scripture to defeat it. And that's what his verse says. This is how we're going to defeat it. The way out is knowing the Bible and knowing truth and standing on it.
Larrie: Okay, you're one for one. How about Peyton? He was born on 8,5.
Gordon: 8, 5. Romans 8:5 says So if you're controlled by the sinful nature, it leads to death. If you're controlled by the spirit, it leads to life in peace. And that's Romans 8:5.
Larrie: All right. Two, four, two. Page was born on 326.
Gordon: 3, 26. Proverbs 3:26 talks about how God is our saves us from traps. And he is our security. He's our full security and he saves us from evil traps, Proverbs 3:26. I also like Daniel 3:26. This is where Nebuchadnezzar. Call. Verse 25 says, I see four four men in the fire, and the fourth one looks like the Son of God. And then verse 26 says, So Nebuchadnezzar calls out to them, Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-Nego come out of the fire, and then verse 30 talks about how they get promoted for getting through the fire in Daniel.
Larrie: All right, we have Paisley was born 622.
Gordon: Hmm…Psalms 62, Verse two says, You only are my rock, my salvation, my fortress, while I will not be shaken.
Larrie: OK Carlee 1124.
Gordon: Mark. 11:24 says If you ask anything, according to my will, I will hear you. But you must believe it will happen. That's Mark 11:24.
Larrie: Kennedy 1011.
Gordon: Can I go 10 10 and then 10 11 ? It goes together. It's John. Ten, ten says the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. But I've come to give you life and have it to the fullest. As John 1010 verse 11 says, And I am the good Shepherd, the one who lays his life down for the sheep.
Larrie: Avery 1122.
Gordon: Deuteronomy 11:22, says Obey, commit whole heartedly to the commands I'm giving you today. Show love to the Lord by walking in his ways and holding tightly to them. That's actually one of my book covers, Hold tightly onto his promises. That's one of my theme verses 11:22 of Deuteronomy.
Larrie: Shawna 28.
Gordon: Her birthday's in two days. It's like, Oh, I named my daughter after this verse. It's a Ephesians 2:8. Her name is Emily Grace and her Shawna. It is by grace. You have been saved through faith. It's a gift of God so that no one can boast. Ephesians two eight.
Larrie: All right. My other daughter, Jamie. 722.
Gordon: Romans 722, says, I love the law of God with all of my heart.
Larrie: Trevor 2, 6.
Gordon: That's today's date which says 1 John 2:6 says, If you claim to live in God, you must walk as Jesus walked.
Larrie: Jake 7,25.
Gordon: Oh, I had to say 724 and 25 because they go together. But Matthew 7:24 and 25 are the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus says, if you hear the words of mine and you put them into practice, you're like a man or a woman, a person basically, who built their life on the rock the Storm. This is verse 25. The storm came and beat against the house and blew, but it was able to stand firm because it was built on the rock. That's Matthew 7:24 through 25.
Larrie: Eva 12,28.
Gordon: Either do 27 or 28 because they go together. But Hebrews 12:27 says, Everything in this world will be shaken and removed, so only unshakeable things remain. Verse 28. Her birthday is right here. Since we receive this unshakable kingdom. Let us worship God and holy fear and awe.
Larrie: Makayla 12,30.
Gordon: Oh, don't even do it. This is like one of my favorites ever. Mark, 12:30 says, And you must love the Lord with all your heart, your mind, your soul and your strength. And the second verse right after that 1231, the day I started my ministry and you must love your neighbor. The second one is equally as important. Jesus says you must love your neighbor as yourself. Mark 12:30 and 31.
Larrie: Ashley 1,16.
Gordon: I'm on it. Romans I'm unashamed of the gospel of God's grace. It is the power that's within us for the first for the Jew and the Gentile.
Larrie: Jason 7,16.
Gordon: Psalms 71 verse 6 says. You've taken care of me since I was in the womb. Oh, God. This is why I praise you all day long.
Larrie: 5,26. That's my Birthday.
Gordon: That's it. That's it. I like this one for you because you're married. But 25 and 26 says love. It says, husbands love your wife like Christ loves the church. And then verse 26 says, And you need to make her holy by washing her by the water of the word of God.
Larrie: Well, I'm going to be sure I'm going to hear about that tonight. How about my wife's birthday, which is 6, 10.
Gordon: 6, 10? I'm going to give you Ephesians 6:10. This is fine One final word. This is where the armors of God start off. It says, I give you one final word. Be mighty and God and mighty in his power. And then it goes into and put on the full armor of God so you can stand up against the devil's wicked schemes. That's Ephesians 6:10 and 11 through 18 are the armors of God. So your wife got the armor of God. Let's go.
Larrie: Okay. Well, 17 for 17. That's that's pretty impressive. So, you know, Gordon, you mentioned earlier the five pillars, fingers actually, of hope and numbers. Could you go over those again with us? The first one I remember was try it.
Gordon: Yes. So let's memorize a verse right now. Let's to pick a verse like 210, if we wanted to, let's say as a group right now we want to memorize 2 10. And so we would try this number and so what would we do? We would go into this app that I've built or the book that I have. You can get the birthdays all on the back of the book. They're all in there, at least one. And we'd go Ephesians 2:10, which says We are Christ masterpieces. And then it says, He created us a new and Christ Jesus to do good works He planned long for us to go in advance. So we're a masterpiece. So let's try that verse. Let's try to memorize that. That's the first step. Try it with the right attitude. We got some people, like when I talk to people about this, like I'm not good at it, they immediately say they're not good. And I'm like, according to the Bible says, I can do all things through Christ, not that I can't. So take away the T, Jesus died on that "T" that cross, now I can do it. And just change your perspective. Maybe you didn't have this upgrade yet. So maybe, so that's why you've got to try it with the right attitude. You're going to love it. That's the first step. The second step now that we have 2 10 and we're going to memorize Ephesians 2:10, we are Christ's masterpieces. He needed to renew your mind to it. Just like Extreme Home Makeover Edition.
Gordon: We need to. You need to wreck the house before they remodel the house. So a lot of people's faith aren't working right now because they're using the old method of memorization and it doesn't really work anymore. We need the upgrade, which is the gift that God has shown me and given me and and it's called. So you need to renew your mind to and remodel with the five steps that I'm teaching and this, this framework. And then so now that you've renewed it and re-modeled it, now every time you see the number 210 for the rest of your life 2:10 p.m. two Jersey numbers 210 across the screen on a football field, it's a speed limit sign, it's an address, it's a phone number, it's a receipt total Renew your mind every time you see 210, that's like it's like Where's Waldo? Kids did that back in the day, like looking for Waldo. Well, now we're looking for 210 out in our world. And we see it. We remember we're not we're not a mess. We're a masterpiece. And so that leads into my next step. So try it. Renew your mind to it. You're going to use it. How do you use it? There's this really famous story of Rickey Henderson real fast. He got his million dollar check a long, long time ago. He was 18. He got $1,000,000 check. He's the number one base stealer for the Oakland Athletics. He gets $1,000,000 check and the marketing department calls him, Hey, Rickey Henderson, what do you do with your first million dollar check? He took it and he framed it and he put it on the wall and the accounting department said, you're not a millionaire until you cash into that check.
Gordon: And that's an earthly story. Now, here's the here's a parable which is earthly story with heavenly meaning, like Jesus used to do. That story is what a lot of Christians do with Bible verses. They put them on the wall, but they don't know how to live it. They put it on tattoos, but they don't know how to live it. What I teach is you've got to learn how to use it and ask God for Revelation and understand it in context. I actually challenge everyone to read the whole chapter so you get it in context. You're not like misleading people and you're using it out. So I teach people. You've got to use it, understand the context so you can uplift the people the right way. If you're using it wrong, it's not going to work. And so that's the third step, is try it, renew it, use it. Now, teach people. Any teacher would say the best way to learn is to teach it. So the best way to sink it in is to tell people the verse you're working on this week. So we're working on 210. When you see 210, I know people at work would go when they see it, they say it out loud and their coworkers are like, Why are you quoting out scripture out loud? He's like, I'm doing this Hope in Numbers thing. I'm just trying. And they're like, Oh, I wonder what mine is. And so it's like a way to like, witness to your neighbor or inspire someone out in the world. And so that's you teach people, that's the way to learn it. And then the H stands for Hold It and. When you get married. Jason Seeger just did my friend's wedding. I was the best man in his wedding. But your son in law, he did the vow. And it says to have and to hold. What does hold mean? Hold means like til the day you die. You hold on to this. And so if you hold on to that scripture till the day you die, God will reveal cool truth the whole every time you see it for the rest of your life. I get inspired by the same numbers in a different way, in a different season of life, when things are good. And when my son passed away, the Scripture spoke like I had one, I share one verse that really spoke to me before Andrew passed away, and then after he passed away and it was Psalms 1:12, verse seven, and it says this Do not fear bad news. God confidently trust that the Lord will take care of them. And I posted it on every Facebook post. My son went to the hospital 300, 400 times over his lifetime. For 14 years he suffered. Medically challenged. Every time I went on Facebook, I go, Hey, God, do not fear the bad news. I constantly trust the Lord is going to take care of him.
Gordon: I took that as nothing bad's going to happen to him The day he died on seven one. After that, I read the scripture a little different. Listen to the verse again. Do not fear bad news. He just died. The Lord will take care of him in God's in heaven, like it was just a different perspective on the same verse in different seasons. It's not changing the truth. He was. He's been with us always and now he's in heaven and that's what's going to happen with certain scriptures. So 210, you're not a mess, you're a masterpiece. I like to almost make it a rap for the youth. Kids like you're not a mess, you're a masterpiece. Like everyone thinks they're a mess. They mess up with sin. But according to the Bible, says he who knew no sin became sin for us so we could become the righteousness of God. So if people really believe that in Romans eight one, there is no condemnation If you're in Christ, if all our youth could understand this, they would walk around with such a confidence that they're made in the image of God. And revelations on Scripture would just happen a lot more. And so that's what Hope in Numbers is in a nutshell. I show you how to do it, and then God takes over and inspires you in your life with your family and your environment. And He shows up and shows off. I have thousands of stories about it, like it's crazy.
Larrie: And so well, based on those five things, it's almost like this could be used in a in a in a small group or in a neighborhood group or in a group setting.
Gordon: Right, Exactly. I'm actually tomorrow night, someone invited me to their neighborhood group from CCV. Someone heard about it. They were like, Hey, would you come speak to us and teach us the five steps? And I'm like, Well, I'd love to. So now that I do this full time, that's I want to speak at neighborhood groups or anywhere churches. FCAs I've been going to teaching the kids and I'm getting great responses like, I've never heard of this before. And it may be because it's I've never seen it. It's not that I'm I like to tell the audience. It's like, I don't try to impress you guys. I like to bless you guys. God gave me that one day because I spent like 50 verses in like 5 minutes one day I was like, Dude, that's that's kind of sounds like kind of prideful. You can come across prideful, but that's not my heart. My heart is not to impress you guys, but to bless you guys, because if you could do this, you could win in your marriages, your relationships, your finances, your environment, like your job, your career, your ministry. If you really know what I do, you can attach this to anything in your life because it's just your spiritual daily walk. We pray, we worship, we read the Bible and God says, We need to memorize it, have it in our heart. And just like Jesus with the devil in the wilderness, he was able to diffuse the devil's temptation with truth from God's Word.
Gordon: He used Deuteronomy 8:3, Deuteronomy 6:16 and Deuteronomy 6:13. You should not live on bread alone, but on every word of God. Don't says Don't put the Lord your God to the test and serve Him and serve him only my framework. What I do is basically just what Jesus did. And I think this world. Is lacking in knowledge of what they're reading in their Bible once they leave it. And so I teach you how to hold on to it. That's the framework of my book Holding on to Promises Everywhere with the acronym of Truth. And if you see on the front of my book cover here, it has an 831 in the name John 8:31 says this If you're truly a disciple of mine, you will hold to my teaching. Hold to my teaching. And it says verse John 8:32 and says, And if and you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. And so I teach you how to hold on to truth and set you free. And I'm getting nothing but great response of me helping people free from addiction disease and having it and still like being confident that the Lord has a plan, just you name it. Scripture has the answer, and I teach you how to hold it. And so it's just nothing but a great time all day.
Larrie: Well, we know Proverbs 4:33 or 23 tells us that above all else, you know, guard your heart for everything you do flows from your heart. So I'm I'm going to take 433 and I'm going to memorize that. I'm going to look for it on license plates. Anywhere. I can see a number. I'm going to start looking for these scriptures and practice what you're what you're teaching.
Gordon: I love it. I would love to hear how you do. And yeah, yeah, it's kind of cool if you already know a few. And then now the light goes on that this is an idea out there you didn't even know. And now you're like, Oh, I know. 831 which is Romans If God is for us, who could begin to serve Proverbs for 23 years is above all, is guard your heart because everything you do flows from it. Like now that you know that that's what happens and it literally is highlighted. It's like, you know, you highlight your Bible, it highlights it God like highlights it out in your world. And you know, when you buy a car and once you buy it, you see it everywhere you go. The same thing applies. You own a verse and you memorize it and you choose it because it shows you and it speaks to you. It's going to follow you. I call it It chases you down everywhere you go. It's insane. Like I'm driving down Chase Bank the other day and has an address 828 and that says God works all things together for good. And that verse chases me down like I see it everywhere I go. Like, good happens, bad happens, God works it together. Even though my son died, it was actually a very sad time, but it was a very like Jesus was there, like I can't even explain the peace that He gave me as I watched him go into the presence at 14 years old, like. 828 Chases me down and follows me and the same thing will happen for you. 423 or any number that you guys try out in your world and your audience. Watch it. God show it to you on a receipt total a license plate no matter where you go. He's the one that does it and it's nothing to do with us, so it's pretty cool.
Larrie: Well, how can the folks listening find out more about Hope in Numbers?
Gordon: For sure. For sure. So you can check out our website at Hope in Numbers. That's H-O-P-E in Numbers is spelled normal at dot net and that's where our website is. That's where our all of our stuff there's a cool there's a cool video, when I was on the news and it was actually nominated for an Emmy for religious news and it's nothing to do with us. Like I was just telling what I just told you. And it got nominated for an Emmy award just to show you that people are hurting for this word and and needing this like this is just a cool upgrade. Just like the old flip phone needs to be upgraded. I think your spiritual gifts needs to be upgraded. So check out our website. We have a book out. We have an app coming out. We have a 40 hour master class on YouTube. We social media. I do 3 to 4 videos a day teaching you. I go live every day. Monday through Friday, I call myself. I go to CCV as my serving church is where I serve and I love. And I've been here for ten years working with the students. I'm like the win. We are mottoes win, train send. I'm like more train. I like to train the people that already save. So our church gets and we do all of those Well here at CCV, I'm just saying I'm really good at training the people to Peter 1 Peter 3:15 says you need to be able to give a reason for the hope you have in your heart.
Gordon: And if you could lead people to the word and the exact address and they could go read it themselves, that's where I feel a lot of the stuff is happening. So Monday through Friday, I go live on Instagram and I'm working. I just started, so I'm working on all of it to make it better. But. We got a team, we got. I go to Amazing Church, I got people praying and we got the Lord of the Universe, just like back at this up. Like, I can't even explain it. Like, just blessing upon blessing everywhere my son passed. But all these it was really just a he's in heaven. He's good. Now it's time for you to, like, tell this story for his glory. And I add him to all my ministry. I'm like, You want to meet my son? You got to go to heaven. At the end of all my talks. Now I'm like, I bring up how Andrew situation happen and it's sad. It gets people. And then I'm like, You got to know Jesus, if you want to meet my son and if you don't, I can help lead you there in a very inviting way that's not to like beating over your head. It's like a very welcoming message with my son's story. And the Bible together just is like God knew what he was doing every step this whole time.
Larrie: Well, Gordon, thank you for being here today. We would love to have you back, because I think we'd love to hear about that story, that journey that you walked through with your son. And so we'll have you back on on the next episode. Again, the check out the show notes of this episode. You'll find not only where you can get the book and but other helpful information about this unbelievable ministry. And we just pray, Gordon, that that God uses you and continues to use you in such amazing ways because you truly do have a gift and you know how to teach it to others. So thank you for being here.
Gordon: My pleasure. God bless.